changing surname

SURNAMES...WOULD YOU CHANGE YOURS?

October 4th 2007 04:19

Following on from my last post SWEDEN BANS DADS IN THE AISLE, here is a link to an editorial article I read late last year. It is titled MARRIED, BUT NOBODY'S PROPERTY.

To summarise, the woman who wrote this article did not change her surname when she got married because

It wasn't the aesthetics of name-changing that bothered me, it was the principle: because the tradition of taking a woman's surname away from her on marriage has its origins in a time when we were considered a man's property (the same thing used to happen to slaves). I didn't, and don't, regard myself as anyone else's property.

I know the irony here: that my surname is a man's anyway, because of our patriarchal history. But to me it was all about identity. Sure, my surname was my father's, but I'd lived with it for 25 years and made it my own. I wasn't prepared to change my identity overnight, just because I'd met the man with whom I'd decided to share my life and have my children.

Now I'm all for teaching my children about gender equality but does the surname you have determine your independence?

One is that other people take their cue about who you are and who you want to be from you. Keeping your surname makes a statement about who you are and how you regard yourself within a marriage.

One of the difficulties I'm sometimes aware of in friends' marriages is an ebbing away of the sense of self, especially for females.

There are women who keep their names "professionally", but that's a cop-out.

I think this woman is a little harsh in her assessment of others.

When Mr M and I were engaged to be married we discussed surnames. He offered to change his surname to mine if that's what I wanted. It wasn't. I changed mine. 8 years on my name still looks odd to me, but then again my old name seems foreign to me too. Oh well, it's just a name.

I know a couple who didn't like either of their surnames so when they got married, they chose a completely new surname for their new life together.

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Posted By: Mrs M - Category: Social Comment

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Comments

23 Comments. [ Add A Comment ]

Comment by Louie

October 4th 2007 04:55

randomthoughts
Phil's Wellness Tips

Never, no way, not on your life......and that's that in my book....

Great post

thank you

Comment by Ash

October 4th 2007 07:47

Flashes of memories

Hi Mrs M

I like the idea of double barrel surnames - it seems to show more of a unity, you`re in this together sort of thing.

I know a couple who didn't like either of their surnames so when they got married, they chose a completely new surname for their new life together.

hahaha! that`s classic.

I`ve never really been a huge advocate for marriage so I`m not really sure where I would stand if I were in this situation myself.

Got me thinking Mrs M!

Ash

Comment by Michaelie

October 4th 2007 09:48

Flick Wit

Mrs M,

No, I won't be changing my name. This is why:

I like it
It's part of my identity
I have already published under this name
I don't want to have to change my signature
I don't want to change my cards, passport, etc
I would feel lost introducing myself as someone else
I don't see why I, as the woman, should do this
I don't agree with the historical reasons behind it

That said I don't believe in the historical significance of a ring, but I would still want one of those! Values and meanings will change and what a ring signifies has changed completely, but I don't think name-changing has so much.

In theory, I like the idea of choosing a new name or connecting names, but it just isn't practical. If we chose new names together we would both be forgoing our nominal connection to our families and our history and ancestry, and would both have to get used to the new signature, introductions, cards, etc. Plus it's a bit weird.

With connecting our names: I would feel like a bit of an pretentious idiot with a double-barrel last name, plus what happens if our kids also want to do this? Will they end up with triple-barrel last names? Or quadruple?

But then if we each just keep our own names, what last name will the children have? Will we just perpetuate patriarchy? Will doing anything else just confuse people?

Anyway, my answer is no, I wouldn't change my name. Beyond that I don't have a clue what I will do, as you can see. But I think about it often and it always intrigues me when friends do or don't change theirs.

Very interesting post Mrs M,

Michaelie

Comment by Aimzster

October 4th 2007 10:08

Reality TV
The Jeepney Stop
First Time Mum

I didn't change my surname when I got married. Part of it is because I couldn't be bothered with having to sign all these papers but for the most part, it's because people know me as AA. I know it sounds weird but up to the time I was in my 20s, I was never comfortable saying my name out loud but now, I really like my name and I don't see the point in getting it changed. But I have no qualms with my children taking after my husband's surname, it's not a feminist issue. The funny thing about keeping my surname and telling strangers I'm married is that they end up calling my husband Mr A.

Comment by Mr Nice Guy

October 4th 2007 10:39

Pop Culturist
Pop Rock Factory

Hey Mrs M

Probably not qualified to speak on this one with any authority - but prior to getting married - discussed this with Mrs Nice Guy - who had never given the matter too much thought.

Almost 20 years on - Mrs NG still has her maiden name (isn't that a quaint term these days) initials proudly emblazed on the front and rear of the family sedan - as a token gesture of her life as Miss KA.

Thanks for allowing me into the clique.

MNG

Comment by Mountain Fog

October 4th 2007 12:40

Infognito
Screen Trek
QUOTE ME NO QUOTES!

my sister in law kept her name when she married my brother, then made sure her son was given both. I always thought it odd that people would give more importance to the male's surname, but I am rather glad I didn't have to go through school writing a double barrelled name, mine was long enough as it was!

And as for women activists getting all hot under the collar about surnames, I think it is irrelevant to see this as an issue, compared to unequal pay/rights in the work place between male and female, now THAT is bullshit!

cheers

fog

Comment by Mrs M

October 4th 2007 15:06

Mum's Word

Hey all,

Fantastic answers.

Hi Louie,

Okay then....hear you loud and clear

Hi Ash,

I`ve never really been a huge advocate for marriage so I`m not really sure where I would stand if I were in this situation myself.

Well yes, you probably need to work out the marriage thing first before you worry about surnames. You make me laught Ash.

Hi Michaelie,

I like it

I think this is the biggest reason for changing or not changing your surname. This would be the clincher one way or the other.

If we chose new names together we would both be forgoing our nominal connection to our families and our history and ancestry,

Excellent point.

But then if we each just keep our own names, what last name will the children have? Will we just perpetuate patriarchy?

Again, excellent point. I've generally found (in my very loose research) that women who keep their surnames and up giving their kids their father's name.

Thanks Michaelie. That was a great comment.

Hi Aimzster,

it's not a feminist issue.

I agree. It's a name...not a state of mind or set of principles.

Hi MNG,

When two people get married there are bigger things to think about than names don't you think?

Hi Fog,

I think it is irrelevant to see this as an issue, compared to unequal pay/rights in the work place between male and female, now THAT is bullshit!

Damn straight!

Now this is what I think...

I changed my name only because, for me, I couldn't really see a reason to keep my maiden name. I don't have the patience to continuously correct people for the rest of my life. Like Aimzster, any kids I would have would probably just have their father's name. It really didn't bother me.

I never really liked my maiden name anyway. But when I was 18 I wanted to show my independence so I vowed to keep my name as a matter of principle. But when the time came to get married I realised that there are probably more important and pivotal ways to show my kids and myself my independence. How Mr M and I relate to one another speaks volumes than whether I take Mr M's name.

And because Mr M was definitely not a guy that was going to insist on gender divide and blah blah blah, then I was more than happy to take his name.

But there are more simpler reasons. My married surname is easier to pronounce, it is easier to type and it fools the Greeks. They hear an Italian name so they think I'm Italian and leave me the hell alone.

But I do take offence to the writer of the original article because she judges me simply because I took Mr M's name. Talk about judging a book by its cover.

Like Shakespeare said, "What's in a name? That which we call a rose By any other name would smell as sweet."

Love & stuff
Mrs M

Comment by Sarah White

October 4th 2007 18:47

coolgirlsar to the rescue
One Too Many Chocolate Bars

I couldn't wait to get rid of my maiden name! LOL! Also for years before my brother came along my sisters and I were dreading which one of us may have had to have a double barrel surname as we would be the last of our family to carry it on. Shudder. What name did I have do I hear you asking? Barrable!! I love my name now White, nice and simple, easy to spell. Plus if I added another middle name to my current one and it begain with O my initials would be SNOW. As it is my Dad from the day I got married has nicknamed me Snow White because of my married name.

As for changing names to me it symbolised my marriage to Daz and us starting out on a new path together and also becoming part of his family. I suppose I can understand why some women don't change their name because of their job and the confusion it can apparently cause but in the end I suppose it is each to their own.

As always Mrs M an interesting thought provoking post.

Hope you and the family are all well.

Take Care.

Sarah.

Comment by yoda76

October 4th 2007 21:34

The Tube Blog

Again, excellent point. I've generally found (in my very loose research) that women who keep their surnames and up giving their kids their father's name.

This baffles me. As a father I would want my kids to have my name - but wouldn't you feel gipped as a mother? Especially if your husband's name wasn't your name?

Comment by Lilla

October 4th 2007 22:42

From The Home Front
Enviro Warrior
Dream Herald
Esoteric Bookshop

Mrs M,

I've always liked hyphenated names. That way both get fair air-time and for me, it has envoked the commaraderie of a team, of which the kids are a big part... it's the A-meets-B team.

Some will then argue the order. Should the man's name go first or the woman's surname? I think it depends on how it sounds. Some are just plain silly when said in this traditional order...mine was.

Great question,

Lilla ...

Comment by KylieW

October 4th 2007 23:29

Celebrity Obsession

Quite frankly it would depend on the surname. If he's got a cool surname, then I wouldn't mind. Mind you, it'd take me forever to get around to doing it.....signing all those forms.

I think the author of the editorial is way too harsh on people who keep their maiden name at work. I know a few people who have done that.....simply because it's easier. I don't think it's a cop out.

Comment by Miswanderlust

October 5th 2007 03:30

Killer Beats
Ramble On
Hipnotherapy

Mrs. M
I wish I would have kept my surname. Long story but I changed my name so that my son and I would have the same last name. I just believed that my son and I needed the same last name. 21 years later .... my son says that I should change it back to my maiden name. Everyone now knows me by my professional name so I will keep it the same.... My son says that he appreciated the gesture.
Mis

Comment by Queenie

October 5th 2007 04:15

Quirky Folk
Quirky Queenie

I agree with everything the writer of 'Property' says. And my kids would have both names.

Comment by DuskDevi

October 5th 2007 09:22

Rugby World Cup 2007

Yes. Of course. It's only a surname.

My identity is not tied with my surname. I am on a first name basis with myself.

Having said that...I love my maiden surname because I love my father and am proud of who he is/was (he passed away). I 'wear' his name with pride AND...my mother's maiden name...was the same (no relation...thank God!...that's actually how they met!). So I truly am, from both sides, a _ _ _ _.

Mum went from being Miss _ _ _ _ to Mrs _ _ _ _!

I use my maiden surname for professional reasons, only because I have built a reputation and a client base over 2 decades. However...the name of my company is a mix of my name and my husband's surname...and that is well known. (as to why it's named thus)

I very happily am Mrs _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _.
...because to me, that name represents the people I would give my life for.
That doesn't mean I gave my life up.

I won't read that article because it will just infuriate me. I'm with fog on this one.

Good post. Hope you're well.

Dusk

Just out of curiousity, in the case of hyphenated names...what happens when the children get married?

eg. Tim Farr-Jones marries Tina Ashley-Cooper and they have children. What name do the children take?

Comment by Anonymous

October 5th 2007 22:47

Hi Mrs. M, D. Armenta here, unable to sign in:

According to standard etiquette, in a hyphenated surname the woman's maiden name is first. No exceptions.

Dusk, that's easy: their kids would have the last name of Farjnashlyper.

After all, that's only fair, right?

HAhahahahahahaha!!!

Comment by Kleonaptra

October 7th 2007 05:28

Kalikapsychosis

One of the difficulties I'm sometimes aware of in friends' marriages is an ebbing away of the sense of self, especially for females.

There are women who keep their names "professionally", but that's a cop-out.

ebbing away of self? My god, shes got some issues!
This is funny, cos I was going to say, the only reason I would keep my name is because I was KNOWN, like it meant something to people, recognition. As she says, 'professionally'!

I am the only person in my family with my last name save my Dad. And he's not my real father - none of his blood is in me. I cannot wait to take Kmans name. I want to get married today!
And I love the idea of making up a new one!

Comment by Mrs M

October 7th 2007 13:44

Mum's Word

Hi Sarah,

As for changing names to me it symbolised my marriage to Daz and us starting out on a new path together and also becoming part of his family.

Beautiful.

I have a friend who has a Serbian surname that no-one could pronounce, or spell and it had at least 12 letters in it. So when she married a nice Irishman with a simple Irish name, she took it. Nothing wrong with nice sounding names

Hi yoda,

As a father I would want my kids to have my name - but wouldn't you feel gipped as a mother? Especially if your husband's name wasn't your name?

Don't know.

Hi Lilla,

Some are just plain silly when said in this traditional order...mine was.

Did you break with tradition?

Hi Kylie,

Mind you, it'd take me forever to get around to doing it.....signing all those forms.

That kind of sucked I have to say.

Hi Mis,

My son says that he appreciated the gesture.

Now that is something. You sure did a good job Mis.

Hi Queenie,

Fair enough.

Hi Dusk,

that name represents the people I would give my life for.
That doesn't mean I gave my life up.

That's good.

On the subject of surnames and family relations, my mother has family on her side that share the same name as my father. Again no relation.

Also, I don't really have a close relationship with my father and because my father really places a lot of emphasis on family name (ie need to have a son to carry on the family name) it really wasn't that hard to give up.

I didn't even need to keep it for professional reasons because I was at the beginning of my career so if there was ever a time to do it without too much fuss it was then.

I don't know. At least your family name means just that to you, family. Not independence, names don't indicate your independence and drive.

Personally, I wouldn't do hyphenated names because with a Greek background and Mr M with an Italian background, too many syllables.

Sorry to hear about your dad.

Hi D,

You are just a wealth of information.

their kids would have the last name of Farjnashlyper.

There's some therapy sessions right there.

Always good to hear from you D.

Hi Kleo,

Well you do happen to be in a more peculiar position than the rest of us when it comes to our dads.

I want to get married today!

Well off you go then.

ebbing away of self? My god, shes got some issues!

Yeah I think so too.

Choosing a completely new name is interesting. The couple that I was talking about had been thinking about it for years. I don't know why they chose the name that they did, but they did have years to think about it.

Thanks everyone for the visit and the comments.

Love & stuff
Mrs M

Comment by Fairy Godmother

October 10th 2007 02:43

When I got married, I changed my name in all legal documentation (except my driver's license - due to laziness) yet kept my maiden name for work - not due to the cost of printing new business cards, but due to my identity and not wanting to lose it. Since changing jobs I've changed my surname, so old contacts aren't sure if it's me they're receiving an email from. Worse still though, I share Mrs M's predicament, my new name and old name just don't feel like mine. I know who I am, but seeing it on paper, or having a group to do list with my initials on it still makes me pause before I realise it's mine. It's quite a strange feeling and I'm glad I'm not the only one with the problem.

Comment by Mrs M

October 10th 2007 03:17

Mum's Word

Hi Fairy Godmother,

We should just drop our surnames altogether.

Love & stuff
Mrs M

Comment by Anonymous

October 16th 2007 10:42

hey Mrs M

i don't know if i'd change my surname or not

but then again i'm only 14

pam

p.s. the women who wrote that artical must have some sort of identity crisis and just a little scared of letting the name she's held dear for so many year go

Comment by Mrs M

October 16th 2007 14:04

Mum's Word

Hi Pam,

Good to 'see' you.

Yeah, I suppose at 14 you've a little while to go before you need to decide.

But you're right; a name doesn't make you.

I would love someone to tell the author of the article that she is the one with the identity crisis...I'd love to see her reaction to that.

Thanks for the visit and comment

Love & stuff
Mrs M

Comment by Eva W.

December 5th 2007 18:55

Life in Germany

I agree with Michaelie! My reasons are exactly the same as hers.

No way in hell will I ever be changing my surname!

Interesting post.

Oh, and I have invented the perfect reply to deal with this topic:

"What? Me take your surname?? Thanks for the offer, but I already have a surname of my own! I don't need yours, you silly boy."