Mrs M
yoda76AM I REALLY BEING UNGREEN?
May 24th 2009 09:13
About a month ago I announced to the family and friends that Mr M and I are expecting Baby No. 4.
Congratulations and delight abound I was feeling pretty good. Until I read the following article.
Green group calls for one child policy
I have one question. If we all lived a little greener then wouldn't that have more impact than simply reducing the population and sticking to our bad habits?
I recently saw a documentary titled "Baby Boom to Bust" on SBS. Simply it explores the ageing populations and shrinking birth rates that most first world countries are experiencing and what affect this will have on the economy on said country. The welfare system, growth and prosperity.
Even if you only look at the family unit, the documentary states that by the middle of the 21st century more than half the Italian population will have no siblings or extended family. Is this a concern?
Another point to consider is that in Australia, and around the world it would appear, the birth rate of most first world countries has been declining yet the world's population is increasing.
I had a quick look at a few parenting forums and in particular large family forums and found that large families are very conscious of the world and the circumstances they find themselves in. Granted, they drive larger cars but tend to bath siblings together, are quite savvy with their money budget and tend to dispose of less. Hole in a sock? mend it. No biscuits in the pantry? Bake them. Ran out of eggs and cucumbers? Go to the backyard to get them. Large families tend to go on more driving than flying holidays.
Which brings me back to my original question. If we all lived a little more green, would that have more impact than simply reducing the population?
I'm no expert so would love to hear from those are well versed in the above.
Congratulations and delight abound I was feeling pretty good. Until I read the following article.
Green group calls for one child policy
AUSTRALIA should consider having a one-child policy to protect the planet, an environmental lobby group says.
Sustainable Population Australia says slashing the world's population is the only way to avoid "environmental suicide''.
National president Sandra Kanck wants Australia's population of almost 22 million reduced to seven million to tackle climate change.
Restricting each couple to one baby, as China does, is "one way of assisting to reduce the population''.
Sustainable Population Australia says slashing the world's population is the only way to avoid "environmental suicide''.
National president Sandra Kanck wants Australia's population of almost 22 million reduced to seven million to tackle climate change.
Restricting each couple to one baby, as China does, is "one way of assisting to reduce the population''.
I have one question. If we all lived a little greener then wouldn't that have more impact than simply reducing the population and sticking to our bad habits?
I recently saw a documentary titled "Baby Boom to Bust" on SBS. Simply it explores the ageing populations and shrinking birth rates that most first world countries are experiencing and what affect this will have on the economy on said country. The welfare system, growth and prosperity.
Even if you only look at the family unit, the documentary states that by the middle of the 21st century more than half the Italian population will have no siblings or extended family. Is this a concern?
Another point to consider is that in Australia, and around the world it would appear, the birth rate of most first world countries has been declining yet the world's population is increasing.
I had a quick look at a few parenting forums and in particular large family forums and found that large families are very conscious of the world and the circumstances they find themselves in. Granted, they drive larger cars but tend to bath siblings together, are quite savvy with their money budget and tend to dispose of less. Hole in a sock? mend it. No biscuits in the pantry? Bake them. Ran out of eggs and cucumbers? Go to the backyard to get them. Large families tend to go on more driving than flying holidays.
Which brings me back to my original question. If we all lived a little more green, would that have more impact than simply reducing the population?
I'm no expert so would love to hear from those are well versed in the above.
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Comment by Wilson Pon
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If this happened, then it has no different with the China, where the Chinese is enforcing the "One child policy" to their citizens.
Comment by Janet Collins
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The Social Critic
Janet Collins Blog
And never rule your life by the headlines. They are just there to make us feel inadequate and wrong.
There are many debates about the "one child policy" in China - some good, some bad. China is a very different country to Australia and our child rate has shrunk so low as to not actually be an issue.
Enjoy the time and the news.
Comment by Mr Nice Guy
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Apoliges for the self indulgence - and - as the father of three - if that's being ungreen - well so be it . . .
Comment by Someone
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With a global population of well above 6 billion, I don't think that a reduction of a few million in Australia is going to make that big of a dent.
She wants Australia's population reduced to 7 million? That is funny. Very funny. What does she suggest, genocide as well? That will never happen.
Does she also want Australia to adopt China's methods of enforcing the one child policy? Like forced abortions? I was reading somewhere that they sometimes stick a syringe in the babies head to kill it as it exits the mother, because apparently it is still a foetus until it takes it's first breath. Yeah, that sounds like an awesome thing to introduce to Australia.
Damn hippies and their stupid ideas. Sure, one child sounds like a great idea, lets just ignore the cruel realities associated with it.
Comment by samaritan
Samaritan's Stories
My best friend in high school was the eldest child in a family of 12. And they were the most loving, caring and kind people I have ever met. And I have often found that the larger the families, the nicer the children in those families tend to be. Not always, but often.
So look at this way. Having more than one child may be worse for the environment. But there is a great shortage of kind, caring people in the world. People who have large families may be helping to put a bit more love into the world.
And congratulations on your pregnancy. I always wanted four children. But my ex-husband only wanted two. Ironically, he ended up with four children and I ended up with two. Life is funny sometimes.
Samaritan
Comment by naturestherapy
The view expressed by Sustainable Population Australia is an extreme green view in my opinion. As a card carrying member of the Greens Party I don't endorse any such views and as far as I know neither do the Greens. I would hate to see all greenies being tarred with the same brush...I say that in response to Comments by Someone and his "Damn hippies and their stupid ideas" response.
Comment by Someone
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I supported Ronan Lee, the green member for our area. I don't define the greens as hippies... only super-ultra-greens... the ones who think reverting to a nomadic American-indian style life living in harmony with nature is the only way to go. My girlfriend is an animal rights activist, and I only jokingly call her a hippy. In fact, I only really call anyone a hippy jokingly, but some of the 'greener' ideas floating around are pretty dumb, as you pointed out.
Comment by Morgan Bell
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i cant speak for how many children we should all be producing, its all a matter of choice, you have four, i have none, so if we were going to be insane about it and say each set of people (eg: domestic coupling) should only replicate itself (eg: replace two adults with two kids) then id say you are doing my share for me, or vice versa
i share-house with other childless adults, you shelter the children you bring into the world, i think it all works out, its all even-stevens
the thing everyone always ignores as to why we are having a population boom is not the birth-rate, but the death-rate . . . people live much longer now, longer than all the generations before us . . . more of the worlds population has more access to better health-care, anti-biotics and immunisations are common now
but we are not going to wait until our parents die before we replace them with new people (babies), so there is always going to be a multi-generational overlap
im rambling again, i did the same thing on MNG's post, i should get my thoughts together and post something on it, i obviously find it an interesting topic
Comment by Lilla
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Firslty, Congratualtions!!!
Another point to consider is that in Australia, and around the world it would appear, the birth rate of most first world countries has been declining yet the world's population is increasing.
I do think this is an interesting point in question and i also believe that you are correct when you say that larger families are more conservation minded and probably end up living cheaper than families with their 2.2 children, who still drive large cars and eat out instead of baking and freezing for the week. Buying new instead of handing down and darning when they can.
That is the material point and one well worth writing about in more detail and perhaps you could research it and pen an article or book to this effect. I think there is great truth here in what you say.
Lilla
Comment by Mrs M
Mum's Word
I'm not in favour of the one child policy in China or anywhere really. China add to the controversy by preferring boys over girls. The amount of abandoned chinese girls in astounding.
Hi Janet,
From what I also understand, Australia's environmental impact on the world stage is quite insignificant. That doesn't of course give us licence to not change our ways, It was only 60 years ago that politicians freaked out and opened the gates to mass immigration to Australia because we needed more people here.
Hi Someone,
I honestly don't know how the one child policy works. I'm surprised there hasn't been some sort of revolution...hang on I forget who we are talking about.
The need to have children is primal, for the lack of a better word. Personally, I would have been miserable for the rest of my life if I was only allowed to have one child. But that's me. And this is Australia. And these are the choices that are afforded to me. No way I would want that changed.
Hi Samaritan,
Mr M's 2 sisters have super large families. And their kids seem to have their heads screwed on right.
But I agree, more caring people in the world can only be a good thing. Actually, a necessary thing.
Hi naturestherapy,
To call yourself a green, or a left wing or right wing definitely comes with various shades of grey.
This is where you hope people can turn on their critical thinking caps and truly assess who is saying what.
I can see that this group is independent but words like National President can sound so huge.
Honestly, I don't think anyone believes that this one child policy will ever come to be. Considering Costello not too long ago asked parents to have one child for mum. one for dad and one for the country.
I'm sure Labor see it the same way.
Hi Morgan,
You're absolutely right. Never before have we had so many senior citizens in the world.
Again, I saw a doco a couple of years ago, it was based on the US, but it stated that in the not too distant future the US were going to have 70 million senior citizens ( or some number to that affect).
Basically they blamed modern medicine being able to keep us alive longer.
One doctor even suggested that we take a long hard look at ourselves when treating the elderly. What does their quality of life become?
One 70 something woman kept her mother alive who was in her late 90's but suffered from chronic athritis which has no cure but doesn't kill you either. The 70 something daughter just didn't want her mother to die.
I don't know how they work out the birth rate but in Australia in 2006 there were 285,200 births. There were 137,900 deaths in 2007. (Quick scan of the ABS site)
Hi Lilla,
Well yes, materialism is at the core here really. Disposability. Keeping the elderly alive. And wealth.
More money, more clothes, more things.
Mr M's eldest sister lives on a farm in central NSW. She breeds cows for her to eventually store in her freezer. Massive vegie patch. Chooks. Does deals with the flour mill and buys in bulk. They don't have a lot of money, but lack of money really clears the way for self assessment.
Stale bread? Make bread crumbs.
What food isn't consumed in time goes straight to the compost bin.
It is actually quite alarming how much food costs.
Thanks everyone for the comments and congratulations.
Baby no 4 is due mid October.
Love & stuff
Mrs M
Comment by Michaelie
Flick Wit
I'm no expert either, but what you are saying makes perfect sense to me. Restricting the amount of children a couple can have hardly seems a plausible solution.
I don't get the feeling you are an irresponsible person, and really can only see benefit in more children in the world growing up with interesting and intelligent mothers like yourself, who will no doubt learn and contribute a lot of things in this world.
I say - enjoy. Congratulations to you both!
Michaelie
Comment by Mrs M
Mum's Word
Thank you for your kind wishes.
The other thing about having a large family (I still can't believe I'm in that category, although Peter Costello lumped me in it during his last budget...) anyways... a lot of the cost cutting methods generally come about because of necessity.
All of a sudden you do realise how wasteful you can be and make changes. I don't know if I'd go to all the trouble of a vege patch if it was just Mr M, me and one child. I would just go to Woollies.
Thanks for the visit.
Love & stuff
Mrs M
Comment by Kleonaptra
Kalikapsychosis
I cant believe I missed this post! Preggers again! CONGRATS to you.....And ONYA Mr M!
As usual, I straddle both sides of the fence, and Im not saying I'm doing it comfortably. I believe I once told you that one of my reasons for not wanting children was to not add to the problem of overpopulation. These issues are all tied together - Yes, there are too many people on the surface of the earth. That is true, and if we continue to populate the way we have been, the environment cannot support us.
Does that mean I believe in one child policy? Absolutely not. Restricting choice to an entire society forces our evolution backwards. We are human. We have to seek greater answers.
So often lately, I am finding the 'greenie' ones are making outlandish statements like this. A drastic solution like this, one track minded BOOM idea, without thinking through any consequences, is exactly how we wound up in this mess in the first place. They of all people should realize that.
Oh, and by the way, the only way to give animals back all the rights they deserve is to wipe out the human population by half. Even everyone becoming vegetarian tomorrow would wipe out entire species to make way for the crops.
Sorry, off topic. Someone said something about animal activists.
Love to you and the new bub my darling. How are the other kids handling it?
Comment by Anonymous
More sense of community = more ability to take positive communal action.
Positive communal action is nessesary for a greener world.
I say tube tie all the ignorant mouth breathers, and let mothers as thoughtful as you have as many as they can handle.
Problem solved.
L
Comment by Mrs M
Mum's Word
Love & stuff
Mrs M
Comment by Kleonaptra
Kalikapsychosis
I'm Pregnant
Comment by Mrs M
Mum's Word
AAARRRGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!! That's great. I have got a great big smile from ear to ear right now.
When are you due?
Love & stuff
Mrs M
Comment by Michaelie
Flick Wit
Comment by Kleonaptra
Kalikapsychosis
Comment by Kleonaptra
Kalikapsychosis