Mrs M
yoda76THE SURRENDERED WIFE. IDEAL?
June 26th 2007 03:29
Well I’m sure you’ve all heard about the hullabaloo about being a ‘Surrendered Wife’. American author Laura Doyle is the brainchild behind “The Surrendered Wife – A Practical Guide To Finding Intimacy, Passion and Peace With A Man”.
Recently there was a story on 60 Minutes and an article in Woman’s Day.
Now here are the simple rules. The wife surrenders herself to her husband. The husband makes all the decisions, takes control of the family finances and instructs the wife on her daily chores. But most importantly, DON’T NAG! Nagging is the downfall of any good marriage.
This little job description is very familiar to that old 1950’s guide to being a good wife.
I found some online forums on the subject and everyone on these forums were disgusted by these rules and thought it was a complete joke.
But there are women out there subscribing to this school of thought because Laura Doyle’s book is a best seller. I wonder if she had to ask permission from her husband to excuse her from her daily chores to write this book.
Laura is quoted in Woman’s Day saying that “Men don’t want to married to their mother”.
Skye Lamont who features in both the 60 Minutes story and Woman’s Day says that she’d rather iron the trouser instead of wearing them. She says, “I was domineering and controlling. I wanted to do everything myself and tell everyone around me what to do. I was in a relationship for 10 years and I was miserable. I made my boyfriend’s life miserable, too”. So the answer is to go the opposite end of the spectrum?
I don’t think that the decision making is the issue…something else is awry. A marriage is a partnership. Isn’t it unfair to lump all the decisions onto one person. Even if that person wants the responsibility, won’t that person one day crack? Who is going to step in and take over when that happens? The surrendered wife?
Having a household free of arguments does make it harmonious on the surface, but at what cost? What does it teach children? Home is the training ground. If a daughter sees her mother is nothing but ‘surrendered’ then what skills will that teach her? If she is not taught free thinking, critical thinking, freedom to air an opinion, how will she deal with the real world?
If a son sees that his father is waited on hand and foot, how will he handle it when he goes out into the real world and continuously gets slapped in the face by women?
As human beings can we even cope with surrendering ourselves? Doesn’t that go against our natural instinct?
Kids are forever trying to forge their way in this world and have their opinions heard, and respected and are often crying out to let them make their own decisions. How can you reverse the very thing that drives adolescents to show they’ve ‘grown up’?
Decision making is not a gender or a marital issue, it is a maturity issue. Not making decisions is just baulking your responsibility. Since becoming an adult and especially a mum the amount of decisions I have to make is stressful and tiring. Sometimes I wish someone else would just take on that responsibility but that would childish and irresponsible of me.
Just the logistics of it bend my mind. Every time one of my children asks to do something would I have to ring Mr M to make a decision for me? Even the best laid plans go down the tubes. Would I have to ring Mr M at work, disturb him, just so he can tell me what to do? Wouldn’t that get old after a while?
Are these women allowed ‘any’ decision making powers? Some of these women have been quoted as saying that they even let their husbands decide what they will eat at a restaurant. How does a couple have a decent conversation when one party has to remain tight lipped?
Would these husbands who are given way too much ‘power’ after a while begin to abuse it?
But as I said at the beginning of this post, the most important rule is to not nag. What did Mr M do when he felt overwhelmed by my ‘nagging’? He got me onto blogging.
Recently there was a story on 60 Minutes and an article in Woman’s Day.
Now here are the simple rules. The wife surrenders herself to her husband. The husband makes all the decisions, takes control of the family finances and instructs the wife on her daily chores. But most importantly, DON’T NAG! Nagging is the downfall of any good marriage.
This little job description is very familiar to that old 1950’s guide to being a good wife.
I found some online forums on the subject and everyone on these forums were disgusted by these rules and thought it was a complete joke.
But there are women out there subscribing to this school of thought because Laura Doyle’s book is a best seller. I wonder if she had to ask permission from her husband to excuse her from her daily chores to write this book.
Laura is quoted in Woman’s Day saying that “Men don’t want to married to their mother”.
Skye Lamont who features in both the 60 Minutes story and Woman’s Day says that she’d rather iron the trouser instead of wearing them. She says, “I was domineering and controlling. I wanted to do everything myself and tell everyone around me what to do. I was in a relationship for 10 years and I was miserable. I made my boyfriend’s life miserable, too”. So the answer is to go the opposite end of the spectrum?
I don’t think that the decision making is the issue…something else is awry. A marriage is a partnership. Isn’t it unfair to lump all the decisions onto one person. Even if that person wants the responsibility, won’t that person one day crack? Who is going to step in and take over when that happens? The surrendered wife?
Having a household free of arguments does make it harmonious on the surface, but at what cost? What does it teach children? Home is the training ground. If a daughter sees her mother is nothing but ‘surrendered’ then what skills will that teach her? If she is not taught free thinking, critical thinking, freedom to air an opinion, how will she deal with the real world?
If a son sees that his father is waited on hand and foot, how will he handle it when he goes out into the real world and continuously gets slapped in the face by women?
As human beings can we even cope with surrendering ourselves? Doesn’t that go against our natural instinct?
Kids are forever trying to forge their way in this world and have their opinions heard, and respected and are often crying out to let them make their own decisions. How can you reverse the very thing that drives adolescents to show they’ve ‘grown up’?
Decision making is not a gender or a marital issue, it is a maturity issue. Not making decisions is just baulking your responsibility. Since becoming an adult and especially a mum the amount of decisions I have to make is stressful and tiring. Sometimes I wish someone else would just take on that responsibility but that would childish and irresponsible of me.
Just the logistics of it bend my mind. Every time one of my children asks to do something would I have to ring Mr M to make a decision for me? Even the best laid plans go down the tubes. Would I have to ring Mr M at work, disturb him, just so he can tell me what to do? Wouldn’t that get old after a while?
Are these women allowed ‘any’ decision making powers? Some of these women have been quoted as saying that they even let their husbands decide what they will eat at a restaurant. How does a couple have a decent conversation when one party has to remain tight lipped?
Would these husbands who are given way too much ‘power’ after a while begin to abuse it?
But as I said at the beginning of this post, the most important rule is to not nag. What did Mr M do when he felt overwhelmed by my ‘nagging’? He got me onto blogging.
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Comment by Kerryn Wood
DEBATABLE CONVERSATIONS...
Sapphire Coast Marine
Good post....
Comment by Ahmed
Video Gamer Kids
Little Green Foosballs
PolyKicks
Umm, the problem with the surrendered wife thing is that it puts too much faith in the husband being fair. You'll be lucky if he is I suppose.
Apparently it works for some people, which is cool, works for them, though I'd say they are hardly waiting 'hand on foot' for their husbands, it's where the whole notion of the husband being fair and just comes in.
By instinct that should be the case, thats what thousands of years of psychological conditioning should have taught us, of course that isn't the case because we always find our excuses.
Also I wouldn't agree to the woman being incapable of taking care of herself, she should be, however her husband should be even more capable to take care of her, from that you can have a 'surrendered wife' type situation, as in, if it's paying hte bills she doesn't have to worry, if it's picking the kids up from school she shouldn't have to worry, if it's the husband going off too often to the pub, thens she has a right to intervene because he isn't taking care of her as he should.
Actualy it's just an oddball situation, I mean, decades of 'womens rights!' this or that and now you women folk are going back right where you came from, perhaps it wasn't all that bad after all
As for all those who'll call on 'surrendered husbands' sarcastically, it doesn't work like that, men by design have to feel like they control their environment, women don't, for them it's just something extra, for men it is necessary to protect their feeling of worth. Don't argue this point with me, argue it with God, thats how were created. Sorry.
Comment by tlcorbin-raginravensview
Raven
Comment by yoda76
The Tube Blog
Well then, let's just all give up - hell... Cain and Abel didn't end well... perhpas I'll adopt that philosophy...
A clarification - I didn't get you into blogging to stop you nagging, I did it because you had a lot to say and were feeling like not enough people were listening. There's a difference.
Comment by Cibbuano
Hunt Famous
Orble Post of the Day
Fat Cult
Techbreak
Comment by Ahmed
Video Gamer Kids
Little Green Foosballs
PolyKicks
Heh, right, I'd like to introduce you to both my grand mothers AND my step grand mother and every other woman old enough to be married in my immediate family. Then you'll see just what Islam does to poor old women.
Comment by DuskDevi
Rugby World Cup 2007
Submissive.
Different strokes for different folks I guess but really...these "surrendered women" are murderers in the making.
That frustration at not asserting the natural balance will bubble over...and then the husbands will be surrendering. Their right to live.
All these females.... and their husbands....lying through their teeth that this is what they want. There's trouble ahead for them.
I saw this on '60 Minutes'. Thought I was watching a 'Funniest Video' show.
That Lamont female has got control issues. She'd be better off at an SM/BD parlour as a masochist... "controlling and domineering" types like to be punished don't they?
As for Laura Doyle?...I'm willing to bet she's the boss and is laughing all the way to the bank. Does not make her strong in my eyes. Just clever.
A more practical guide would be; Finding Intimacy, Passion and Peace Within Self.
....besides...real men could never be with a "surrendered female"...and Women could not be with a surrendered male...The natural balance is about equality. And equality is a see-saw.
Women and Men are different for crying out loud...and it's our differences that make us adore each other.
No one likes being nagged.
As I say to my boys...if you don't like being 'nagged' then don't give reason to be 'nagged'.
Comment by Ahmed
Video Gamer Kids
Little Green Foosballs
PolyKicks
Your 'natural balance' comment implies women and men are the same as each other hence a percieved equality means both have equal footing in the exact same aspects, however this does not hold true from a practical stand point.
'Natural balance', as has been rammed into the human psyche for as long as humanity has roamed the earth puts men in a dominant position, not in the sense they own the woman but they win the bread. It doesn't make women any less of a being should they choose to stay home, even in this modern age where theres such a thing as day care.
Just because the modern woman does not want to work or worry about paying the bills does not mean she is inferior or submissive to her husband, having that choice and not exploiting it isn't to imply they have surrendered.
It's something to be comended, that they can trust their husbands to such a degree that they are willing to give up control of the economical aspects of their family as they fully devote themselves to the family itself.
I don't understand what this 'surrendered wife' concept is exactly, however if it works for people it works for them, I won't say it is a pathetic excuse, women tossing away their rights (percieved, as always), it's a system of family that works for some people and aren't they lucky that it does?
Comment by tlcorbin-raginravensview
To late, I have already been down that dusty road. I still maintain it's never to late for Dr. Laura.
A Teacher's lot: perpetually underpaid, over worked, unappreciated, doomed to endless meetings and self defense lessons in court. (I used to include: 'over sexed' as well).
Lately, over sexed faculty, staff and students have taken the alternative morality to new levels with their many dalliances: enjoying the fruits of safe oral or other non-sex sex, as defined and practiced by that Clinton fella from the US.
So, I am not as eager to expose the time I spent teaching to many in the public forum for fear that someone will think me a lecher.
Raven
Comment by Lara M
Love Speaks
Food Slate
Like u said, Mrs M, "Decision making is not a gender or a marital issue, it is a maturity issue." On that note, I wonder if those people featured (or interviewed by the author for her book) are at all mature...?
I like what DuskDevi said "...don't give reasons to be nagged"...
Comment by DuskDevi
Rugby World Cup 2007
You continue to validate my inherent dislike of cubism.
My "natural balance" doesn't "imply" anything.
Natural balance applies to the fact that women and men are not the same so arguing over who is dominant is a moot point.
Like bringing that bit up is a moot point because we're actually saying the same thing. shudder.
This has nothing to do with "surrendering".
Surrendering happens when there is no choice left...and even then, human instict is to look for an 'out' but these women had a choice.
However, they chose not to change what was making their lives miserable.
Themselves.
They chose to change the way they control others.
Why I feel they are "lying through their teeth" is because this is all about manipulation and pretence.
A "household free of arguments"? Oh Great. Way to promote harmony. Let's pretend it's all okay. Yes sir. no sir, ulcer.
As Mrs M writes;
Please note that her tone is sarcastic and she is not asking for confirmation.
Intimacy, passion and peace are not found through pretending that nothing is wrong and manipulating someone in to thinking they are right.
So in effect...this offends me because I feel that these females are living a lie and giving Women...Real Women, who base their choices on truth....a bad name.
For what?
So that their existence can be validated by a power hungry weak minded fool who has no clue he's merely a puppet?
....and master only when his wife decrees.
This is Stepford Wife revenge.
Hi Lara...I've never nagged. I just repeated myself. Until the message got through.
Comment by Ahmed
Video Gamer Kids
Little Green Foosballs
PolyKicks
I'm sorry, excuse me, but when you say people lie, that something doesn't work for them simply because youdon't understand it, it either is an indication that you are jealous of them, or you have the ideas of totalitariam germinating in that head of yours. When you try to define how people can be or can't be happy and under what circumstances you're essentially taking the assumption you know whats best under a circumstance you do not fully understand or even begin to comprehend. That sounds pretty dumb doesn't it? It is
Use my age against me if you will, but I dare you to challenge my experience, I might be young but coming from some of the most diverse parts of Australia if there is anything I've learned that I will take to the grave with me it's that I should never pass down judgement on another person, group or culture simply on face value and personal experience.
It's as simple as that
Comment by yoda76
The Tube Blog
plus
Can I challenge you on the basis of contradictory condescion?
Comment by Ahmed
Video Gamer Kids
Little Green Foosballs
PolyKicks
I know of her enough to expect her to give me that response and I freely admit that even though perhaps a little crude, this is my thinking fo her. It isn't face value, I didn't meet her today, found what she said about surrendered wifes, responded to it and unjustifiably assumed she would give me an immature response, or at least a response containing such immaturity. She always does that when she disagrees with me, or even agrees with me, all over some random man whom I dislike because he has a habit of laying unjustified hate and name calling upon people he dislikes. Perhaps theres a bit of a moral clash inside her that I'm upsetting, but whateva, her problem.
I would like to extend this back to her, actually, has she read the surrendered wife? Is she a family psycologist? Does she even personally know anyone who has read the book? These are all important questions, I mean if she read it and was against it then at least I can ssume she has some credibility, as it stands people have read the book and are putting it into practice, saying it works a charm, then theres duskdevi who just hates the name of the book and what she's 'heard of it'.
Comment by Ahmed
Video Gamer Kids
Little Green Foosballs
PolyKicks
By 'personal experience' I should have written down 'from what I've heard about it and any unrelated experiences I have that I might bend and twist to fit said culture, person or group'. Thats basically the 'personal experience' I'm relating to, not 'personal experiences' with the culture, person or group. So basically, if I know this one wallabee supporter who practically is having an online affair with a very dirty minded and cruel man who'd drop her like the plague should she just once, one day say 'I don't like this small thing about you' I won't just say they're all like that, or pass down such a judgement on them all that is at all reflected by that. Of course I can bring up severel more examples, just trying to clarify myself here
You gotta watch what you say, especially when you're me, because you can't always put down what you're thinking to words so that others can understand
Comment by yoda76
The Tube Blog
You managed to say that pretty well
I would imagine that eveyone's happy to hear everyone's opinion here, at the very least on this blog - I just get put off when the comments turn into digging matches.
Comment by Ahmed
Video Gamer Kids
Little Green Foosballs
PolyKicks
Also, I said it will because I read over that three times to proof check it, screwing up on explaining why you screwed up to begin with would be a pretty big slip up.
Comment by DuskDevi
Rugby World Cup 2007
....oh the irony...
This is bordering on obsession.
You spend way too much time thinking about me.
Hmmm...
Mrs M...my apologies. I will stop now. On your blog.
Comment by Ahmed
Video Gamer Kids
Little Green Foosballs
PolyKicks
When you call me a 'kid' it hardly is a description, when I call a foul mouthed man who insults the hell out of people whom simply dislike what he writes even to the smallest degree as such, well it's the truth.
Theres a clear difference, while your base of 'kid' may be founded on the grounds of your own personal opinion, my calling that person what I do is based on what has actually happened in the past, and you know it all too well
If you would like to discuss this without insulting me then no problem, heck, if you say something like 'you're a muslim so of course you believe in abusing women!' I'd take it much more kindly tah calling me a 'kid', since at least one has SOME base in it and can be replied to. Keep in mind though I wouldn't find it very nice anyway
Comment by Ahmed
Video Gamer Kids
Little Green Foosballs
PolyKicks
Comment by Nickoftime's Sanity Corner
I don't feel that anyone should "surrender" to anyone else! A maariage is a partnership, and being at someone's neck and call and waiting on them hand and foot while BOTH partners work is not a good idea...Eventually the "giver" is going to get fed up and stop giving...
If a wife likes that sort of thing then fine...But if both parties expect to get waited on or catered to, then that certainly isn't going to work..
May have worked well in the 50's but in today's society where BOTH partners work? I'm thinking...NOT!
LOL
Great post!
Take care,
Nick
Comment by D. Armenta
The Florida Keys and Everglades
The Black Sheep Chronicles
What constitutes bad manners?
The male mystique
Debate Fan
L.A.M.P.
I didn't see or read the show/article in question, but I am familiar with Laura Doyle's opinions about wifehood/surrender.
In my opinion, she is mistaken in making this a gender issue, as you yourself have wisely pointed out.
There are people in the world who do not want to have to make decisions or take on a lot of responsibility. This group of people includes men and women. The catchphrase of the day for women in that group is "surrendered wives." The catchphrase for men in that group is "having a Peter Pan complex".
Ahmed, while you make the case that people shouldn't judge without having knowledge, you yourself are doing just that. Perhaps your background experience has taught you one or two aspects of thinking, but I can assure you that as you get older you will learn that there are a lot more aspects than your own in this diverse world. Google "matriarchal societies" and see what you find.
Comment by tlcorbin-raginravensview
Perhaps you should, "...try warming your hands a little", before your intention is fully exposed and you're left barren, naked and wanting.
Cheers.
Raven
P.S. Do you subscribe to the, "...women should be obscene and not heard," mindset or did you author that quaint phrase?
Comment by DuskDevi
Rugby World Cup 2007
You're what?...a teenager?
To me...you are a kid.
Who would never be so 'brave' face to face.
Comment by David
June 26th 2007 13:19
THE SURRENDERED WIFE. IDEAL.
Comments by Ahmed
Rucks & Rolls – His Name is Homer Joyce
(December 27th 2006 06:01)
your writing sucks.
He was a regular fuckwad
Comment by Miswanderlust
Killer Beats
Ramble On
Hipnotherapy
I think the Rolling Stones sum up this book in a very eloquent manner.
Mis
Comment by Kleonaptra
Kalikapsychosis
Ahmed, you are going to be single forever. Youre already afraid of your own birthday as it reminds you youre dying so I guess really your afraid of dying alone?
Dusk darling, you said it - the differences between men and women are what make us adore each other. You are in a loving and secure relationship, as are the M's, as am I. So I believe we are qualified to comment on relationships....
(also got a counselling degree around here....Somewhere....)
It is the universal law - Woman surrenders to man, and then she owns him. How do you think the universe was made? What caused the Big Bang? Darkness curved to light.....You think about it!
Kman lived on his own for a bit....He ate tuna sandwhiches for dinner, went hungry at work, wore dirty clothes, fed the cats cheeseburgers, and the bathroom became a mouldy rainforest within about a week.
Man needs woman. Woman needs man. Its really quite simple. If there is no to and fro it just doesnt work. If the pull of space had no effect on the gravity of the sun where would we be?
I am qualified to speak on the subject....But people really need to work this out for themselves.
Great writing Mrs M. Love it here.
Comment by KylieW
Celebrity Obsession
How is that good? That's just annoying. She could have saved them both hours of drive time.
I'm very suspicious of guys who would want a woman who defers all decisions to him? What he's too scared of a real woman with real opinions?
It might work for some I guess. And good luck to them if it does. But I find it a bit creepy!
Kylie
Comment by Lilla
From The Home Front
Enviro Warrior
Dream Herald
Esoteric Bookshop
*Hillarious Laughter*
You know I don't watch TV, but this ....can't be ....real?
...well okay maybe it is, ... If he wants his pants ironed, then he had better learn how to iron... I mean I don't mind pressing them if I have time, but I don't see my role as the wife as that of a house maid.
I agree with you Mrs M, the word "surrender" is only suitable in the bedroom; and that takes two to achieve it, too.
I refuse to be any man's mother and worse, I hate nagging. *lol* *hillarious* because the only thing that can completely make me loose it ove rthe years, is if my partner has tried to force me into a nagging role. I have met men who do exactly that!
What? DO these men miss their mother's that much?
Don't make me nag, for Christ sake, aren't you all old enough to make your own beds and lie in them?
I think a man is not worth his salt if he does not learn to listen to his wife's intuition... it's what completes the union and makes it successful or a failure, in my view... but then I don't cry wolf for attention. I don't car if I get attention or not, especially if it is not the good sort *chuckle*
Mind you, I have to empathise, because I don't say much at home and couldn't imagine anything worse than being with someone who never shuts up, could you? *lol* I'd have to kill them. I can't imagine any man who would want a doormat that nags all day and has no sass?
/seriously/ I think a mother who doesn't teach her sons to wash and cook, and iron is doing them a future disservice and will complicate their lives.
To me, a partnership made up of two and dialogue must be a part of every decision (as they age, the kids too if it affects them) ... there is the strong point of view too, that the big decisions are already made if you are both heading in the same direction, and not butting heads all the time, anyway...?
What this show sounds like it was projecting to me is co-dependency, not reflected independence.
As always Mrs M, a lovely thought provoking post!
Lilla ...
Comment by Mrs M
Mum's Word
Most of the women that responded to the forums I mentioned in my post asked for the very same thing....a surrendered husband.
I have a partially surrendered husband, if I asked him to he would absolutely surrender his right to do the laundry, dishes, vacuuming etc. Ha ha ha. Come to think of it, I'd surrender those rights too
Hi Raven,
It doesn't seem like a realistic option. The more I think about it...I mean how long could you keep this up. I know I couldn't, my mind would explode.
So you don't teach anymore? Hope you're not disillusioned by it....because where would we parents be without you teachers...love your work.
Hi Cibby,
Hi Lara,
Hi Nick,
There are too many unanswered questions....some of which I raised in my post. But I would love to interview these women myself and ask about real life situations and how do they deal with them. In the interviews I've read they kind of paint broad strokes of the 'philosophy' but I would love to get down to the nitty gritty of it all.
Hi D,
I really do think that every adults needs to make decisions and be held accountable. What's the worse that can happen; make a bad decision. I know I have my fair share and I'm still here. I still have friends, my husband still thinks I'm alright.
Hi David,
Now that's what I call investigative journalism.
Hi Mis,
Ah The Rolling Stones. (said in Mick Jagger accent)
Thanks for the vid. I enjoyed that. Don't mind the Stones at all.
Hi Kleonaptra,
But it is a partnership you're right. We bring something to the relationship and the men bring something else. That's what makes it work; no-one should be stifled or submissive.
Hi Kylie,
But yes, it is all a bit suspect....the motivations of the men. In the articles I read, nowhere did it say that the man insisted that the wife change, the wife changed of her own accord...but why wouldn' t the husband say "no darling, we're equals in this marriage.
Hi Lilla,
Glad to bring laughter into your computer screen.
Lilla, you one smart lady.
Thank to all of your for your comments. I have thoroughly enjoyed reading them.
DUSK, AHMED, YODA
I'll have to get to you three later. I'm still getting over my cold and answering everyone elses comments has drained me...and my youngest has just woken up...toddlers have wonderful timing.
But let me just say this, I thoroughly enjoyed the debate between the three of you.
You are all welcome here anytime.
Love & stuff
Mrs M
Comment by David
One of my favourite TV shows? Media Watch.
David ...
Comment by tlcorbin-raginravensview
Author Laura Doyle: The Surrendered Wife.
She didn't surrender! She charged to the rear and opened secret bank accounts in India (great rates there) with proceeds funneled from her lectures and books sales. She's saving funds for her next Birthday present: a boy toy - Surrendered Husband. She's gonna get herself a little surrendering action with flowers!
Lines form to the rear; chunks to the left - hunks to the right, and look perky.
BTW: Thanks to the current rate of world wide exploitation due wars, jihad and debauchery sustained injuries; we men are rapidly being depleted as a species, soon discussions over surrendered anything, are going to be moot.
Wow, I love this topic.
Raven
Comment by Mrs M
Mum's Word
Also, having someone pay the bills because it's a job that one party doesn't feel like doing isn't surrendering. But when the wife has no idea in what shape the family finances are in and all she gets in pocket money that does diminish her role in the family.
You say that God intended for men to fulfil their need to control their environment...well isn't the world in great shape then?
Hi Dusk,
I agree with you say about natural balance and yes as a woman I too find all this offensive. My mother was very submissive and one day she just lost it and my dad didn't know what hit him. Thankfully she didn't entirely return to her old ways. But my dad did take his role as 'head of the family' a little too far and he really did dismiss my sister and I because we were female.
When I said I was going to uni he said "what for? It's too late now (I was 21). You'll get married, have kids and stay home. What do you need a uni degree for?"
Watching the unfair imbalance between my mother and father made me more determined to have my own voice.
yoda,
Hi Raven,
I'm secretly waiting for the day when she is exposed as a liar and a hypocrite...wouldn't that be a story and a half.
Love & stuff
Mrs M
Comment by tlcorbin-raginravensview
Exposed with her toy boy in tow. It'll be great!
Raven
Comment by Catherine
Natural Animals
For me I have, but not in a way that 'he' tells me what to do. But in a way that I never make him feel lesser than. I never criticise him to my firends, or challenge his opinion in public. If I disagree we discuss privately and calmly, but never attack each other. In a way we have both surrended to each each other. It doesn't have to be a one way street.
For me, surrendering is more always pausing to consider what my partner would like whenever making a decision.
I see nothing wrong in making him feel like he is the King of my world, If he needs a shirt ironed or I have the opporutnity to cook him a surprise breakfast when all is expecting is a coffee, it serves me to do this.
In return, for such a simple attitude, he makes me feel like a Queen every day.
I used to take the "oh we are equal road", and was never happy. By putting my partners needs first in everything I consider, I get 100 fold of consideration and care back, more than I ever received when I was trying to bust a man's balls.
(wondering where this will take the thread
Comment by Mrs M
Mum's Word
Thanks for your comment, very much appreciated.
I'm hoping you can answer some questions I have about this.
What you've written in your first paragraph about not criticizing each other in public is completely reasonable. To me that is just plain respect that both husband and wife need to show each other.
You've written that if you disagree with him you discuss it in private. Again, that's what I call respect. A point you've just brought up is that you if you disagree with your husband you can discuss it. From the interviews and articles I've read, it was implied that the wife wasn't allowed to disagree with her husband. It does seem like a one way street. You've said that it is not necessarily so.
Do you make decisions regarding your finances; marriage; kids (if you have any). Would you tell your husband that he's taken a wrong turn? If you are out a restaurant and your husband asks you what you'd like to eat, do you tell him or do you leave it up to him?
This are the sorts of things that have come up in the articles I have read. Maybe you can clarify some of this for me.
The other things you said in your comment about helping each other out by ironing, cooking surprise breakfasts again to seems like respect and a little bit of compromise on both parties...assuming both parties iron for each other and cook breakfast.
Marriages are full of compromises, that's a given. I consider my husband's needs and he considers mine. We discuss it if there happens to be a clash to find a solution. For example I would like to do a writing course at night so we work out how to make it fit into our family life.
But when I came across 'The Surrendered Wife' it didn't seem to be a compromise from both parties.
The women didn't like the state their marriage was in, so they changed...not the husband as well. It seems like an imbalance to me.
Also, I'm not quite sure why equality instantly means that you are busting a man's balls.
My other question is how does he make you feel like a queen. What does he do for you to make you feel so good?
Just out of curiousity, have you read the book or did you do some soul searching to find the things that would make you happy?
Love & stuff
Mrs M
Comment by Nina
Comment by Catherine
Natural Animals
I would love to answer your questions but I can only see half the words posted.
Each time I read the paragraphs I can guess different missing words and don't want to take you the wrong way.
I haven't read the book or seen the 60 mins segment, just a lot of trial and error until I hit on the right formula for me.
When I have more time I'll try and pop back and see if I can read the page better.
Comment by Anonymous
She was a feminist, divorced three times and thought she could give me advice about marriage.
I did as she wished, studied very hard and recieved a very high education. Then I went into the work force. I didn't like what was happening, I didn't like working in a job, despite the social status it gave me and despite the laws of my country allowing me all i wanted to do was settle down and raise afamily.
Behind my mothers back and against her wishes I found a man who was capable and strong, whom I knew I could trust. She grudgingly gave us her blessings and we married.
Of course it wasn't over for me, back to work. Working in a 'real job' seems to be the definition of womens freedoms, but eventually I decided I didn't want this freedom. I had a baby and stayed at home. At first it was only for six months, but I realized taht I enjoyed being a mother too much to work. I didn't care about the less money we had, I didn't care about my friends opinions, that I had submitted my freedom to my husband by not having an income of my own.
I never went back and I'm prefectly content, perhaps some women have to control their husband and be involved in all the decision making one way or the other. I'm perfectly content letting my husband have his way, be the bread winner of the family and run the economics of most things. He'll ask me for my advice if he needs it or if it involves something that I have to have a say in (family trips, etc) but otherwise what he says goes and I don't mind it. I'm the woman at home he comes to.
He has never angered me or displeased me, he goes to work, pays the bills and I don't have to have a say in it.
It isn't as easy as that, if he tells me that he didn't make much money and that we couldn't do something together as a family that we were planning on I have to trust him, that he didn't spend it at the pub. I don't really see that as a difficulty, but my friends do, they think I should always be supsicious of my husband.
I am pleased to say that I am not a murderur in the making, I'm not 'pretending' everything is ok when it isn't. Everything is great, I don't consider myself to be surrendered despite what certain people think a woman in my position would be.
If something absoloutely concerns me and I have to say it then I will, in full knoweldge that my husband will take my words with the utmost seriousness and respect for he recognizes that despite not working in a 'real job' I run the family diplomacy.
I find it very offensive and degrading that someone says that I am lying about my happiness, I understand my chosen lifestyle may not compute with other men and women however it is my life and I live it as I please. I'm not lying, the so-called 'natural balance' can take shape in different ways, there is no one right way to be a good wife. I can't help but feel for those women who think I am a murderer in the making or that I am lying about my content with my situation because they obviously have no trust in their relationships or at least they don't have as much trust as I do. I truly feel for them.
-Sam
Comment by Mrs M
Mum's Word
Thanks for your comment.
I think it is a great thing that you went on to get a very high education even if you don't "work" in the field that you are qualified for, getting educated is never a bad thing. Education teaches you to think. Do you really regret getting an education?
From your answer it sounds like you have thought about what you wanted from your life and it is working for you. I hope it continues to do so.
I believe that feminism is about choice and opportunity. Being a stay at home mum is a real job. Working in paid employment is a real job. So far over the course of my life I have been fortunate to do both.
Trust in a marriage is important. I trust my husband when he says he is at work...he trusts that I won't go and spend up big on the credit card.
I don't believe because he earns the money that I don't have a say in how the family budget should run; we are all affected.
I'm a stay at home mum (part time writer from home) and it is a choice I made but I didn't give up anything else.
Thanks for the visit.
Love & stuff
Mrs M
Comment by Anonymous
Comment by Mrs M
Mum's Word
Thanks for your comments.
Balance and shared responsibility I think is vital in every marriage and if the book isn't as extreme as the publicity makes it sound then the PR surrounding the book does it no justice.
Thanks for dropping by.
Love & stuff
Mrs M
Comment by Anonymous